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 Just sayin' 
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Unread post Just sayin'
Star Killer wrote:
rider2 wrote:
So you are changing this ancient edit because we found a new way to play it and everyone else is too lazy or slow to adapt?
Lucky them.
Enjoy your game.



Well I could point out that your team is not playing because you are unwilling to adapt to the current game.... but i wout....

trying to kept the thread on track....lol....

sk


Seems more appropriate to discuss this over here in Smack 2.0.

If I had the biggest megacorp on the planet, I don't think I would have any problem playing ICE without product on the planets.

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Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:55 pm
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Unread post Re: Just sayin'
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
That implies mega-corping would be allowed :mrgreen:

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Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:08 pm
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Unread post Re: Just sayin'
rider2 wrote:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
That implies mega-corping would be allowed :mrgreen:

It's not allowed :lol:

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Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:22 pm
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Unread post Re: Just sayin'
The question is....
Would the rules have been changed if you had won last year not us?

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Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:27 pm
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Unread post Re: Just sayin'
Micro wrote:
If I had the biggest megacorp on the planet, I don't think I would have any problem playing ICE without product on the planets.


You can bring any 8 players against us any time and we'll play 8 on 8.

Oh right, nobody else (including you) can bring 8 players to a game because you don't have 8 people who want to play together.

Okay, tell you what. You and xan and company bring 8 players and we'll bring 5 and we see who wins. I don't think it would be you.

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Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:11 am
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Unread post Re: Just sayin'
Shadow wrote:
Hammer_2 wrote:
Sorry for big post.

I'll be getting a corp together regardless of the edit.

And yep, not having to edit my moo scripts makes it more appealing to me, purely based on time. I do eventually want to edit them and take on Shadow/Rider's script.


The real issue here is that this is a significant, material change that is being made without any consultation with anyone in the community except one or two people who play for the same corp as the sysop.

I have a suggestion for the future: we should demand, as players (all of us) that any edits to a tourney be made with full input across the community and should be heard and approved by someone other than the sysop of the game.


1st of all as I stated... I made the decision based a talk with 3or4 players on TS B4 last years game, and on a conversation with BigD this last summer. My perma corp does not use TS. and Xanos for example, I have never spoken with him other then email or in game SS.

Speaking for myself and Prob. Xan since we talked about it once. The real joy for him is taking the edit apart as it is and finding the best way to cash, grid, etc...and coming up with the scripts to win that game. for us(more him on the scripts part) that's prob. most of the fun. I have had more fun in practice for some of these tourney's then playing the real game.

As far as the 'community' picking the edit.... Is the community paying my hosting bill? is the community paying my internet bill? is the community paying for my time? Nope.

You are free not to play if you don't like the game. which is what you are doing.

You are also free to host your own tourney's and run them how you see fit.

sk

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Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:46 am
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Unread post Re: Just sayin'
Shadow wrote:
Okay, tell you what. You and xan and company bring 8 players and we'll bring 5 and we see who wins. I don't think it would be you.

I do no not even know if we can get a corp together for ICE. We are down two players because SK is hosting, and it is tax season for Cruncher. Then we loose Xanos in the spring/summer. We usually manage to scrape 6 together for HHT, but 8 would be hard to do.

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Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:03 am
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Unread post Re: Just sayin'
I’m sorry, I feel I need to interject at the his point. When I was asked to host HHT last year I made a couple changes which I felt would make to tournament more competitive. Micro and SK, even though the changes were miner, said that any changes would not be keeping with the tradition of the tournament. They felt so strongly about not having to “pick the edit apart” that they told me that I couldn’t host. I don’t see how this situation is any different. Increasing probe delay and taking product off planets that have “traditionally” been in the planets are massive changes made that address the strategies used by the previous winners in an attempt to even out the playing field.

For the reasons stated above, I will be announcing, as Runaway Photon did in 2012, that I will be hosting the Fire Tournament as an alternative to Ice. The announcement will officially be made on the “Official Tournament” thread later today.

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Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:13 am
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Unread post Re: Just sayin'
You told me you were not hosting any more tournaments... lol

I do apologize about HHT, your idea for StarDock would have been fine. I just did not want a "Hunt for StaDock" game.

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Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:04 am
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Unread post Re: Just sayin'
I heard a rumor that Farley and his friends are playing Ice.

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Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:45 am
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Unread post Re: Just sayin'
Sultan Bey wrote:
I’m sorry, I feel I need to interject at the his point. When I was asked to host HHT last year I made a couple changes which I felt would make to tournament more competitive. Micro and SK, even though the changes were miner, said that any changes would not be keeping with the tradition of the tournament. They felt so strongly about not having to “pick the edit apart” that they told me that I couldn’t host. I don’t see how this situation is any different. Increasing probe delay and taking product off planets that have “traditionally” been in the planets are massive changes made that address the strategies used by the previous winners in an attempt to even out the playing field.

For the reasons stated above, I will be announcing, as Runaway Photon did in 2012, that I will be hosting the Fire Tournament as an alternative to Ice. The announcement will officially be made on the “Official Tournament” thread later today.


Bey,

While I agree that Micro and I and others prob. didn't handle that well. there is a big difference between this and HHT. You where trying to do something without telling the player base... by hiding the SD on the V screen and then putting right next to fed. Had you just said that up front the whole issue would have been avoided.

Tourney sysops IMO most be clear and and upfront about everything they are doing as we a practicing for weeks ahead of these games.

But again I also want to apologize for the way I handled the HHT situation. We all could have done better.

As far as you hosting a competing tourney. feel free. tho there will no longer really be a need as I have canceled Ice...

I fought this for over 24 hours... and I just can't do it anymore.. I lose you all win...

sk

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Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:16 am
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Unread post Re: Just sayin'
Micro wrote:
I heard a rumor that Farley and his friends are playing Ice.


Not anymore, apparently.

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Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:09 am
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Unread post Re: Just sayin'
Star Killer wrote:
Speaking for myself and Prob. Xan since we talked about it once. The real joy for him is taking the edit apart as it is and finding the best way to cash, grid, etc...and coming up with the scripts to win that game. for us(more him on the scripts part) that's prob. most of the fun. I have had more fun in practice for some of these tourney's then playing the real game.


This is actually a perfect way to describe why we are unhappy with this change. Rider and I spent hundreds of hours last year picking apart ICE and building scripts that would give us an advantage. That, in fact, is most of the fun for me. We do this before every game, and then focus on execution during the game. We have built scripts for every game in the last two years that have given us a good chance to win, or at least compete.

If someone announced that we were banning fotons in all future games, I am pretty sure Xanos would be upset since he has put so many hours into his foton scripts.

This also begs the question of why anyone is complaining about planet prods in this edit. Xanos is certainly capable of building a moo script, and Hammer already has one. Who exactly is at an unfair disadvantage here? My expectation, after how easily we won last year, was that Hammer and Xan would come with better scripts this year, making it a more interesting game. Instead, we end up here.

Star Killer wrote:
As far as the 'community' picking the edit.... Is the community paying my hosting bill? is the community paying my internet bill? is the community paying for my time? Nope.


This actually brings up a great discussion point.

As Hammer has suggested in the past, perhaps we SHOULD be paying your hosting bill. I, for one, would have no objection to paying, say, 10 dollars per person per tourney via Paypal or Venmo to help fund the hosting cost. If you get three teams of five each paying 10 bucks for a month long tourney, that should alleviate any direct and indirect costs.

My comment on the community had to do with maintaining tradition. You could argue that BigD never thought of moo cashing, but that is *entirely the point* of what we do - find ways to beat an edit that nobody thought of. It doesn't mean that taking that out of the edit isn't a material change. The big difference between ICE and HHT has always been that ICE didn't completely suck as an edit - it was much more interesting to play. By taking out the planet prods, you've made ICE into HHT with slightly better ships. Who wants to play the same game twice a year? If you don't like playing with planet prods, fine, play HHT and not ICE. I chose not to play HHT last year because it's an awful edit and I don't like playing it. I didn't complain about it at all, I just didn't play.

Unfortunately, because a few people insisted on complaining about this edit and convinced you to change it, we are no longer having a tourney. Maybe people should complain less.

Star Killer wrote:
You are also free to host your own tourney's and run them how you see fit.

sk


As soon as someone offered to do that, you took your marbles and went home. So, yes, anyone is apparently free to do that, if they want you to back out from hosting.

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Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:18 am
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Unread post Re: Just sayin'
Shadow wrote:
I chose not to play HHT last year because it's an awful edit and I don't like playing it. I didn't complain about it at all, I just didn't play.

You posted 15 times in the HHT thread flyboy.

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Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:35 am
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Unread post Re: Just sayin'
prestone2 wrote:
Shadow wrote:
I chose not to play HHT last year because it's an awful edit and I don't like playing it. I didn't complain about it at all, I just didn't play.

You posted 15 times in the HHT thread flyboy.


Is flyboy supposed to be some sort of insult? If so, try harder.

And no, I didn't. I just re-read the thread. I posted nothing about the edit, only about your nonsensical claim that you "won" a tourney nobody else showed up to.

Again, nice try.

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Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:21 pm
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