That's where good structure plays its role, to prevent problems like that. No matter how much documenting you do within a TWX script, if it's complicated enough, sooner or later your not going to remember what you did. I agree with him that the programming structure needs a great deal of improvement, but then again, who's going to put that time into a free program? heh

Well, I guess it's too much for EP by himself; maybe some of the scripters or would-be scripters could help him out, seeing as it should save them a lot of time in the long run. It would also make script-writing more accessible, which could lead to more interest in tw2002 in general.

Has nothing to do with "too much", has to do with it being technically infeasible. IIRC, the program would have be rewritten for functions to work. Most of these things have been discussed before. Some of these features have been in the works for years. I remember talking about an integrated BFS back in 2005-2006.

Most scripters here are more than happy to help with TWXproxy development, but without a public source package it's difficult to do. I'd be more than happy to setup a git or svn project, but it takes time to get there.

For now, just be glad that the app is still under active development.

Whatever... all I'm trying to say is that if the scripting language was easier to use then more people would use it. Features like BFS for example can be added easily via scripts if the language is strong.

It seems to me like this has everything to do with "too much", since twx would have to be gutted and re-written to accommodate the changes.

I don't know of any active, competitive players that don't use it.

BFS was easily written in the language, but most players don't understand it conceptually. People ended up having to both understand it conceptually and learn how to nest loops.



Re-writing the program, IMO, is not just a matter of too much effort. It's more a matter of practicality. Of course you're always free to write your own helper if you want, or take the old 2.04 source package and make the requested changes.

Functions would be nice. Objects would be nice. But they're unlikely.

I don't want this to turn into a flame wars .. but this script language is not that difficult to read or follow for coding.
The problem is when inexperienced scripter write what they think is is proper code
and it doesn't work .. they think its a shortcoming of the language , where in fact its
a shortcoming of the scripter.

One thing to keep in mind , most implications to the next release will need to be
kept backward compatible for the most part ... so some new commands can be added but
a restructuring for your caveman coding is probably out of the way.

This language from all others I have programed in is the closest to English as it gets.
Learn basic then get advanced , there are alot of good scripts to read and learn from.
A good script is easy to find .. it runs .. therefore is good code , not great perhaps
but is written and works , so becomes an example to use.

Give the guy a break .. your not being charged anymore for others work.
Oh memory's of the old days when you payed for it and scripts from other others ...
Money well spent .. so feel free to think of the $$ you've saved by jumping on the wagon
in this day and age .. and a perk .. its still being developed for YOU for FREE!

my 2¢

Vid I noticed you said "scripter". We weren't talking about "scripting", we were talking about "programming". You are right, TWX is fine for scripting, but the goals of most TW scripts are somewhat simple to reach. The programming structure of TWX for creating larger more complex programs is not that great to say the least.

You missed my point - there are a lot of people who are not in tw at all because of this. I do think twx scripting is extremely tedious but I'm not complaining entirely on my own behalf; the old-school tw players are for the most part too intimidated to even bother trying. I'm sorry if I'm insulting your program; I didn't really mean it that way and I didn't even realize at first you're the writer. TWXProxy really is a brilliant piece of software and you are my God for writing the first version of it.

Like Vid, I don't want this to turn into a flame war, but as current twx scripters you clearly have a limited viewpoint; try to think of it from the perspective of an old-school tw player who has never run a script in his or her life, and they now want to come back to the game.

That's fine, maybe I'm not as smart as you guys and I'll never understand the complexities of twx scripting because of my inferior mind, but that's all beside the point. The point is accessibility of the game to new users. To be competitive, twx is a necessity at the moment.

Stop being defensive, and just accept the viewpoint of an outsider at face value. You can take me seriously or not, but don't attack me for stating my opinion. Maybe you're not attacking me but you sound like you're taking it personally or something...

Yeah, Big D seems to get what I'm saying. I looked at MomBot, and I think it really stretches the limit of the language. Impressive that three scripters collaborated on that and it really works most of the time... I suppose that once you get into it it's really not that hard to follow, but tedious!

Xide did an excellent job with TWX and EP and followed on with more excellent work. Granted some things would be nice in TWX to make it structured, but from someone who is not a professional in programming, it is the easiest to write you could hope for. Compare writing in TWX to REXX and REXX (no offense Rev) is a nightmare.

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

Yeah, I wasn't being sarcastic, I really think it is a great piece of software and I probably figured subconsciously that the author wouldn't be in the least defensive about it.

I was only being sarcastic about the God part.

I can easily understand the issues a new scripter faces when first starting out with TWX. I think my main problem was working with triggers and then my game knowledge was severely lacking which didn't help. Another area was writing the macros that the script would send and taking into account the different aspects of it.

I think EP is doing a great job and he listens to the community for areas to improve TWX. He will also answer questions in a manner that makes sense (at least most of the time).

If you run into issues writing a script, post a question and someone will answer. I think most of us will help anyone when we can. I am not a programmer, but I try and write well enough to get by - sometimes by asking for help.

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

none taken. at least REXX has functions hehe.

Thanks. It's not that I run into issues per se, it's the time and the tedium that gets to me (e.g. keeping track of variables, which can only be 'global'...).

There are a lot of ppl that are not in tw because TWXproxy is too complicated to learn? Really? LOL.



Then that's their problem. I can't solve someone's emotional hangups. Especially by making a simple script language even more complicated. I'm not a babysitter.

Nevertheless, if you feel that strongly about the language being too complex why don't write a program to do the job better? Or at least does it the way you want?



I didn't write it. Xide wrote it, EP took over the project when Xide left and has maintained it (for free) ever since.



Uhm. TWX scripting language is one of the easiest languages in existence to learn. Compared to even BASIC, it's very well-tailored to fit the game and simple tasks. There's very little you could do to make it easier to understand. Functions and objects, while nice for advanced users and complicated blocks of code, certainly would not make it any easier to understand for new ppl.