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 Warp between games? 
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Unread post Re: Warp between games?
The Mad Hatter wrote:

Only 4 games? That kind of kills the main reason for doing something like this, which is to even the playing field a bit by allowing weaker players to hide from the killer players.

Considering how cheap storage is now, why not up it to 20 games? What really matters is the number of Stardocks/Fed Spaces, not the total number of sectors.


Yes, only four games. Currently the server is private- just myself, my husband, and kids play on it. As we continue to work on this, we will add more. With that being said, it is a moot point as far weak vs killer players and the playing field. The kids were taught by us and can hold their own just fine. We mainly play as a team anyways since we have "computer players" and the Gold aliens to play against so that is covered.

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Could you script a way to limit where traders go based on alignment or exp? I always thought it would be cool to have "area's" of space where pirates aren't able to visit, and vise versa for fed safe.


We actually just completed a phase with this concept in place. Some of the computer players can't "gate" to another game based on experience, some sectors are prohibited based on alignment. We were hoping to somehow implement a way to keep sectors more secure, meaning you can't enter sector(s) that are heavily protected and do not belong to you. This can be achieved since we have built our own helper app for playing.

As we work more on this, we find ideas implemented open doors to other ideas and the sky is the limit. The nice thing is that we just eliminated the need for using TWXProxy- to be honest it was getting annoying having to want multiple instances and eventually overtaxing a system with the amount of sockets used for communications. We instead wrote two programs- one is an interface program for the computer players that now connect to the server and we just have to activate the player(s) we want and set them active; the app does the rest. We also use our own developed helper now which has everything we need or use when playing a game. We find more enjoyment when we play and come up with more ideas to expand/enhance our game(s).


Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:13 pm
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Unread post Re: Warp between games?
It sounds interesting Daala!! Keep us updated please!

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Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:51 pm
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Unread post Re: Warp between games?
Daala wrote:
The Mad Hatter wrote:

Only 4 games? That kind of kills the main reason for doing something like this, which is to even the playing field a bit by allowing weaker players to hide from the killer players.

Considering how cheap storage is now, why not up it to 20 games? What really matters is the number of Stardocks/Fed Spaces, not the total number of sectors.


Yes, only four games. Currently the server is private- just myself, my husband, and kids play on it. As we continue to work on this, we will add more. With that being said, it is a moot point as far weak vs killer players and the playing field. The kids were taught by us and can hold their own just fine. We mainly play as a team anyways since we have "computer players" and the Gold aliens to play against so that is covered.


You are missing the point. Get a game like Halloween Havoc or Battle of the Elite with 50 or 60 players, the weaker players don't stand a chance.

The ability to jump to another universe would give them that chance.

We don't get many new players in TW2002. The learning curve is just too damned steep. Make it harder for the Elite players to knock out the weaker players, and the weaker players then have a chance to win.

Yeah, it will still be a crappy chance, but at least it will be a chance.

As far as limiting a universe to one alignment/score level, that only works if there's a damned good reason, some prize, for the players to go there. That's why I never implemented anything like that, it limited the players who needed the extra space the most.

Wayne

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Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:42 pm
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Unread post Re: Warp between games?
The Mad Hatter wrote:

You are missing the point. Get a game like Halloween Havoc or Battle of the Elite with 50 or 60 players, the weaker players don't stand a chance.

The ability to jump to another universe would give them that chance.

We don't get many new players in TW2002. The learning curve is just too damned steep. Make it harder for the Elite players to knock out the weaker players, and the weaker players then have a chance to win.

Yeah, it will still be a crappy chance, but at least it will be a chance.

As far as limiting a universe to one alignment/score level, that only works if there's a damned good reason, some prize, for the players to go there. That's why I never implemented anything like that, it limited the players who needed the extra space the most.

Wayne


I did not miss the point. The server is private, so currently there is no need to worry about the weaker vs stronger player. There are only four of us human players and a few computer players, and the sandbox is plenty big at the moment. And as I said we usually work on one team anyways so the only players we end up tackling are either Gold Aliens or computer players.

The limiting a game universe based on alignment/score actually works for what we are doing. I am not saying we would employ this if we ever invited the public into play. For our current game we have going, it actually fits the "storyline" very well. As far as limiting players from entering sectors, that was easy enough to do and it serves its purpose as outlined about the "storyline". Plus there are "goals" that can change the limiting of universes if the "goals" are achieved.

Look at it this way. We are not doing this to the tune of any game edit that has been played with players in the past. Each server and sysop finds their own niche in the corner of the universe, something that sets them apart from other sites. We have been around a long time, played a long time, and made our notes based on what we learned/liked/disliked. We wanted to go in a different direction from using any edits of the past and we made our own. If and when we decide to reopen to the public, then we may do so. If people do not like the structure or layout, that is their choice. I was merely attempting to give information to the OP on his question.


Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:58 pm
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Unread post Re: Warp between games?
Daala,

I really think the "If" part of your statement should just refer to when. Something like this could be a huge part of the continuation of TW2002. Obviously its hard for new players to jump in a game playing against the "elite".

I hope you guys complete it to your liking and decide to open your server once again for other players including myself to play. I've talked with a few people about the multiple universe idea, its one that I keep hoping will come true.

:)

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Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:11 pm
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Unread post Re: Warp between games?
The Mad Hatter wrote:
The ability to jump to another universe would give them that chance.


I appreciate that you're trying to prevent new players from rage-quitting, but I don't think what you're proposing would protect them. If they could hide in another universe, they still couldn't "win", whatever that's defined to mean. They could either continue hiding, or show themselves and get killed.

A tournament is just not the place for new players. (Or any casual players.) There are plenty of games and servers set up with those players in mind.

BTW, long time no post, right? Glad to see you back.

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Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:07 am
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Unread post Re: Warp between games?
Not sure that I agree, Mongoose. Its' a complex scenario. With 20 universes, 220 fedsafe sectors, 20 SDs and 80 Class Zeros: Unless it is a high turn game, I can see a relatively inexperienced player acquiring enough assets to become a major nuisance, or at least enough to survive long enough to learn how to be one : )


Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:31 am
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Unread post Re: Warp between games?
It would really be cool if each participating server/host could host it's own linked "universe" each with their own configurations, aliens, turn and time limits.

And maybe a "Gate-way" host, so no matter which server you logged into, when you begin, everyone starts at the same point/universe.

Since experience and alignment is so easily manipulated, maybe a rule that forces you to move into the next universe after XX number of days?

The possibilities are endless! :)

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Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:38 pm
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Unread post Re: Warp between games?
Cruncher wrote:
It would really be cool if each participating server/host could host it's own linked "universe" each with their own configurations, aliens, turn and time limits.

And maybe a "Gate-way" host, so no matter which server you logged into, when you begin, everyone starts at the same point/universe.


Similar to playing InterBBS BRE (Baren Realms Elite) back in the days of the modem. We could play our turns either local or join the InterBBS game where instead of battling another in the local game, we could attack players from other servers that were connected to that game.

The only thing at this time is that all universe game(s) have the same turns (which for the moment we have set to "unlimited"). We did not see it of any benefit to having one "turn-based" and another "time-based". Different aliens and such, yes. But not the turns.


Last edited by Daala on Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:10 pm
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Unread post Re: Warp between games?
Kavanagh wrote:
Not sure that I agree, Mongoose. Its' a complex scenario. With 20 universes, 220 fedsafe sectors, 20 SDs and 80 Class Zeros: Unless it is a high turn game, I can see a relatively inexperienced player acquiring enough assets to become a major nuisance, or at least enough to survive long enough to learn how to be one : )


I can see how it might work if the universes that only the newbies are allowed in are "better" in some way: edited ports, faster planets, higher planet trade percentages, etc. If all the universes are the same, nothing changes at all. The skilled players will still out-earn the newbies by the same proportion.

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Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:58 pm
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Unread post Re: Warp between games?
Daala wrote:

Similar to playing InterBBS BRE (Baren Realms Elite) back in the days of the modem. We could play our turns either local or join the InterBBS game where instead of battling another in the local game, we could attack players from other servers that were connected to that game.

The only thing at this time is that all universe game(s) have the same turns (which for the moment we have set to "unlimited"). We did not see it of any benefit to having one "turn-based" and another "time-based". Different aliens and such, yes. But not the turns.


Have you played any public unlimted turn games lately? They have scripts that run 24/7 that make 10's of Millions of credits per hour. Of course, that requires a map, and I don't know how map algorithms will be effected with the linking of universes.

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Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:31 pm
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Unread post Re: Warp between games?
Cruncher wrote:

Have you played any public unlimted turn games lately? They have scripts that run 24/7 that make 10's of Millions of credits per hour. Of course, that requires a map, and I don't know how map algorithms will be effected with the linking of universes.


The mapping portion is rather complex with integrating multiple universes. However, we managed to have a map stored in each database of our helper. When we are in a game, information is stored in a database for that game, and each database will contain a map of the universe. When we trigger the activity to "gate", we exit the game we are in, enter the next game we are gating to, and the database for that game is loaded with the map for that universe. Right now the map is rather generic (as I am the one coding it). I assume Thrawn will want to add details to it (color, port info, etc) to make it more useable.

As far as the scripts that makes millions of credits per hour, we know and are aware of them. The trade script we have integrated into the helper will not reach that amount, but then again it does not affect us as the scripts are created to be more practical/useful. To me (and I say this just so that no one decides to jump on my statement all ruffled up), I do not place making that large amount per hour as an important thing. But then again I play this to have fun and design different things to enhance the playing experience, not try and dominate or be Queen of the universe. I did code the scripts to be more of a practical usage for the moment, first by automating the mundane tasks (collecting product/colonists, stock planet, scout, etc). We have not even looked at any offensive/defensive side of scripts yet for us players, although the computer player(s) have been coded to react and respond in kind (some that are red will attack, some blue may offer to help or ally). As I have said, there are so many different things we can do. As we play each time, one of us have a new idea to try and implement.


Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:52 pm
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Unread post Re: Warp between games?
Daala wrote:
Right now the map is rather generic (as I am the one coding it). I assume Thrawn will want to add details to it (color, port info, etc) to make it more useable.


What language is your helper written in? Mine's written in Java, and I'm using a library called Prefuse for the map. I'm finding it a joy to work with. It was a piece of cake to color the warps between PPT and SSM pairs and add port details to sector tooltips. Plus, the Prefuse display has all kinds of zoom, pan, and drag controls that you can add with just one line of code.

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Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:13 pm
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Unread post Re: Warp between games?
Mongoose wrote:
What language is your helper written in? Mine's written in Java, and I'm using a library called Prefuse for the map. I'm finding it a joy to work with. It was a piece of cake to color the warps between PPT and SSM pairs and add port details to sector tooltips. Plus, the Prefuse display has all kinds of zoom, pan, and drag controls that you can add with just one line of code.


As far as the helper, we are currently using Dark Basic Professional. We also like the fact we can tie in C++ and .Net with DBP, and since we have used this in other developments, we know what it can do so that was the choice. We use this in other projects such as applications and games we have developed and sold in r/l. First, I do model and texture designs so I made 3D models of the standard TradeWars ships, planets, stardock, and port (3 variations of the port). In Dark Basic Pro, we can create a map by loading the models and texture files.

When the map is called, it opens up and displays a grid with hexagons, and each hexagon represents a sector. If there is a port in a sector, the port model I made is scaled to fit into that hexagon. Unexplored sectors will be gray; explored will have a green outline on the hexagon; red is enemy; blue is ally; neutral and alien races to yet be determined. The next phase we are attempting is to be able to click on the hexagon to display the sector in 3D. So if I were to click on sector 1, the map then switches to a 3D view showing a planet and the port orbiting the planet. Thrawn is going to add code to the map section that will allow us to click on an image hud to one of the sides and have data displayed such as port information, warps, etc. The map opens up initially small and you can zoom in/out plus use the mouse to move around, which helps if you have a 20K sector.

The second reason- we found it easy to port scripts we made into the helper to be used in the game. With the OCSBot from our old TWGS days, we had it ported in with little effort and worked off the hop. Same with the computer players. So this is what we decided to use. Plus we have many plugins for DBP so this seemed to be a logical choice for us, since we have already created games using it before.

The helper itself was easy to do. We have used both SWATH, JTWAT, and even recall our TELIX days with scripts used, so we knew what we needed. It is the map portion that is the longest part of the development, particularly given the detail(s) we are attempting to achieve.


Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:58 pm
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Unread post Re: Warp between games?
Cruncher wrote:
They have scripts that run 24/7 that make 10's of Millions of credits per hour. Of course, that requires a map, and I don't know how map algorithms will be effected with the linking of universes.

Not true.... not all the cashing scripts require a map :)
This Map concept has been talked about for years and might be something nice to tinker with or draw some players back.

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